magid | "Happy holidays!"

There's a lot of debate about appropriate seasonal greetings. There are those who defend "Merry Christmas," saying that the more generic "Happy holidays" is an attack on their religion. While I don't see it as an intentional attack on their religious beliefs, I can see how it might feel like a dilution of religious expression. However, there are lots of non-Christians out there, too, so unless one is sure, the more generic is less problematic. "But wait," some say, "it's just wishing me joy, with their personal spin on it." Which I can also see, but still don't appreciate. I'm not part of the dominant religious culture in this country, and I'd rather not have wishes for not-my-holiday sent my way. Though I suppose I'm lucky I'm Jewish, since the next stop on the holiday roulette Wheel of Greetings is "Happy Hanuka," not "Happy Diwali," or "Happy Solstice," or "Happy Kwanzaa," etc.

This year, I find myself more irked than usual by it all. I don't mind being wished a happy Hanuka (though I'll point out that it finished last week, so it's not really that appropriate any more, kinda like saying "Happy Halloween," (as I overheard someone say today), but it's just not that big an event on the religious calendar. Not quite on the scale of $SaintX's day, but not so far off either. There's minimal observance, and while much can be said about the themes of religious renewal, or questions of assimilation, and so on, that's not required, either. My (major) holidays were back in September-October (Passover's big, but it's only one, while in a month there's the quadruple whammy of Rosh Hashana (New Year), Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), Sukkot (Feast of Booths (boy, English sounds bizarre for some of these...)), and Shmini Atzeret/Simchat Torah (Rejoicing of the Law, or Festival of the 8th Day, or something else equally unenlightening)). So I've started thinking that this coming September (they're "early" this year), I should go around wishing people "Happy Holidays." Sure, it's not their holidays yet (though one might say it's just getting ready for Halloween, or Thanksgiving, or something), but I'm just wishing people joy with my personal spin on it, right?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

gingicat

I'm seriously considering making one of those LJ posts of "want a holiday card from me? leave your address!" in late August next year... knowing most of my non-Jewish friends, they'd take me up on it. :)

From:

magid.livejournal.com

Hey, that could just be seen as being very organized, that much before December ;-P

Oh, and btw, next year the chagim are way early: RH starts the Wednesday night after Labor Day.

(Sometimes I wish I were organized enough to send out holiday cards, for whatever holiday. When it comes down to it, though, all the necessary prep is overwhelming enough, without adding extra stuff to it.)

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

This is a really neat idea, and the kind of gesture that gently and gracefully makes a point. I totally think you should do it.

From:

doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com

I agree with most of what you wrote (you were a considerably more polite than I am about it) but I do mind being wished a "happy Hanuka." I get really cranky about the whole thing and have decided decided to start pronouncing Christmas as "ex-mas."
I also mind having to explain over and over again about Sukkot. Ah, the arrogance and ignorance of the majority.

From:

magid.livejournal.com

The snarkiness is on in my head, however politely I might have managed in the post. I'm not actually going to say to someone who wishes me "Happy holidays" "Oh, thanks, I'm looking forward to Passover!". Nor when someone now says "Happy Hanuka" will I say "Looking forward to 2010, and stocking up now on Hanuka candles in the after-holiday sales!" No one is intending to be mean. But letting the snarkiness out somewhere is helpful.

From:

danger-chick.livejournal.com

Well, if they are well-schooled Christians, they will know that the X of Xmas is not actually derogatory. X, XP, and XT are abbreviations for Christ based on the greek language (Chi and Rho). If I remember correctly, one of the ways first century Christians marked their meeting places, since it was illegal at that point to practice Christianity, was to use the Chi.

I am not actually Christian and find the whole "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" tiring. I think the thing that really pisses me off is people telling me to "get into the holiday spirit." Why should I? It's not my holiday. Some years I am better about that than other years.

A friend of mine (B) married someone who is a UU (K). When they were first together, B would try to teach K about Judiasm, but B could not resist throwing in on occasion "an untrue Jew fact." So, when B told K about Sukkot, K was pretty certain that B was giving her another "untrue Jew fact." There is nothing similar in Christianity, so it seemed pretty wild to her.

From:

spwebdesign.livejournal.com

I wouldn't be put off at all by receiving such a greeting in September and would, of course, return the greetings.

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

I would feel the same way as

spwebdesign. I've had numerous Jewish friends wish me L'shanah Tovah or Chag Purim Sameach, for example, and always appreciated the sentiment (after all, as a teacher, I begin my year in the fall too; and Purim is just cool).

I've also had Hindu students extend holiday wishes during, for example, Ganapati Puja, Ganesha's holy day -- I even got ladu, the god's favorite sweet, once. And of course, living in Japan I received a number of Shinto sentiments and tokens that weren't part of my religious tradition -- not that I really have one -- either. (Granted, in Japan, even most believers don't take religion too seriously.)

In spite of all this, it's undeniably different for me as a not-Christian-but-raised-more-or-less-in-that-vein secular humanist to receive such wishes from how it must feel for someone who is a devout member of a non-majority faith to get all those Merry Christmases.

So I'd hardly tell people what to feel about being wished Happy Whatever. I went through a long period of actively disliking Christmas, but have finally made my peace with it as one of the holidays of my culture, for better or for worse. Much as some secular Jewish friends who happily nom bacon will nonetheless drag out the menorah because it grounds them in an individual and a collective past, dragging out ornaments and garlands connects me to my childhood and to my family. This is usually a good thing.

(And in this case, for me at least, the parallel between Christmas and Hanukkah is salutary: just as Hanukkah isn't really the biggest deal holiday-wise for Jews, Christmas isn't really the biggest deal for me. Halloween is my holy day if I've got one, and I pour a lot more of my heart and soul into spooktacular prep for October 31 than I do for December 25. Christmas has become a more important holiday to me of late, as Kat is a Catholic, but then Halloween's become a much huger affair for her as well, so it all comes out in the wash.)

Anyway, I don't wish folks a Merry Christmas unless I know it's a holiday they celebrate. I usually stick with Happy Holidays, or Season's Greetings, which annoy me a bit with their blandness; but then, being inappropriately specific would annoy me more. Again, as a teacher, I have this time of year off, so at least when I wish someone Happy Holidays, I can mean it in the secular, vacation-y sense as well. :)

From:

magid.livejournal.com

There's a difference to being occasionally wished "happy $NotMyHoliday" when one is in the religious majority, to the constant stream of it when one is in the minority. However I deal with it, I lose, after a while. If I just return their greeting, they're happy but I become part of that majority for a moment, ignoring parts of myself. If I return their greeting with "happy $MyHoliday," I know I'm doing the same thing to me that they just did to me, which I would prefer not to do, but at least it gets the point across that I'm one of those Others. If I return their greeting but append more info ("I hope you have a happy $YourHoliday; I'm celebrating $MyHoliday"), it starts to get into a longer conversation, which is not always something I want. And in all of these choices, there's cost to me.

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

Understood; as I mentioned, I know that it really is different for the non-Christian devout, so I'm hardly trying to imply equivalency. And after living so long in Japan, I get the exhaustion that can follow from indulging others' well-meaning attempts to understand that which is Other about you.

From: (Anonymous)

There really are no good choices, largely because of the initial assumption that everybody must be celebrating some sort of hugely important holiday at this time of year.

From: (Anonymous)

In spite of all this, it's undeniably different for me as a not-Christian-but-raised-more-or-less-in-that-vein secular humanist to receive such wishes from how it must feel for someone who is a devout member of a non-majority faith to get all those Merry Christmases.

Thank you so much for recognizing this.

Additionally, Jews are forbidden from foreign worship, so even a Jewish community used to being the majority would be uncomfortable with Christmas.

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

I've enjoyed reading this post and its replies, and think I can empathize -- at least a little -- with the frustration Jews and other non-Christians often feel at this time of year. Good food for thought for the unthinking, of whom there are certainly many on this planet.

That said, I have to admit that I bristle when I see folks contemptuously write Christmas as XMas, or call Christians Xtians (I know it isn't always denigratory, but sometimes it is), or refer to the cross as a plus sign, or whatever. I'm not Christian myself, but members of my family, my wife, and many friends are; and it seems just as disrespectful to me to subtly attack their faith -- even if they're in a mostly-ignorant majority and their interlocutors aren't -- as it is for goofball Christians not to recognize that Hanukkah =/= Christmas for Jews. In both cases, ignorance and disrespect seem to me to be riding in tandem.

I'm not trying to hijack your post, or to disagree with the validity of your sentiments and objections (see my other comment elsewhere). But as I feel for my Jewish peeps over this issue, sometimes I feel for my Christian peeps when I hear or read some kinda callous remarks from people who don't share their beliefs. This includes a few neopagans I've known, a few Jews, and more than a few secular humanists just like me.

Majority or minority, everyone deserves the respect of having their beliefs understood and respected by others (assuming those beliefs aren't actively antagonistic to the well-being of non-coreligionists, that is). Because Christianity is so ubiquitous (one in three people on earth, according to Huston Smith), sometimes people forget to accord it the same consideration that smaller faiths rightly ask for.

From:

magid.livejournal.com

I'm underslept, so this is likely less coherent a reply than might otherwise happen.

I know that I write Xmas and Xtians, which for me means not calling Jesus a Christ = Messiah; for me, the messiah has not come. Jesus' Mass is very different to me than Christ's Mass. It has the same feel in my head as when my mom told me how to sing in the "holiday" concert at school, quietly changing "the" to "not" before "Lord" or "Savior," etc.

About being in religious majority/minority: I just did a quick and wholly not authoritative look for world religions by adherents, and found this circle graph. As long as Catholics and Protestants and Mormons and Orthodox and Quakers et al are considered together, Christians are the world majority. However, Islam is pretty large, also Hinduism, and many people know even less about them than Judaism (which is a tiny minority). While I know a bit about each, I'm rather unfamiliar with their festivals, which is why I didn't include a Muslim holiday in the post at all (though I did think about my ignorance as I didn't, if that makes it less bad).

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

As to the point in your first paragraph, I guess I sort of understand. This may be another place where the difference between you as an observant Orthodox Jew and me as an agnostic speaks loudest. I am, for example, comfortable using the phrase "the Prophet Muhammad," even though he isn't my prophet, but I understand where others with a faith that takes the Messiah seriously would have trouble with words like "Christ." Not judging, just acknowledging a difference.

And I didn't mean this kind of linguistic shifting for personal comfort so much as I did the kind of thing that's often meant with malice and hostility (I'm thinking of a guy I saw at a pagan gathering once wearing a leather jacket with a big red circle-and-slash painted around a cross on the back; way to repay centuries of intolerance with a more enlightened attitude, friend!). Sometimes one does hear nasty things not just said, say, about the Pope's (another word I use, even though he's hardly my spiritual father) policies, but about all Catholics, say.

All I meant to mention was that ignorant remarks are not the universal province of Christians in this country, and that we'd all do well to remember that. If it sounded like I was taking you to task personally, I wasn't, and I apologize if I gave that impression. :)

From:

doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com

If it sounded like I was taking you to task personally, I wasn't, and I apologize if I gave that impression. :)

It sounded like you were taking me to task for my comment about pronouncing it "ex-mas."
I don't know if I know you, nor if you know me, but to avoid making a mess of

magid's LJ let me say this: I am a religious (yet non-observant) Jew who is also a moral relativist and is respectful of other people's religious beliefs or lack thereof. I am also only human and sometimes run out of patience with well-meaning people who just don't think before they act or speak.

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

I wasn't taking you to task personally. And I can understand the frustration (while mostly secular, I did live in a xenophobic country for five years, and occasionally -- or more than occasionally -- got stabby at people's ignorant remarks and questions). I do think repaying people's dumbass religious ignorance with religious disrespect is a losing proposition, but the temptation to do so indeed makes emotional sense to me.

I don't think we know each other, though I've been stumbling across you on LJ for years. Maybe one day we'll meet in person. I don't doubt that you're a nice and reasonable person.

From:

danger-chick.livejournal.com

I know that I am getting into the conversation late, but the X is not supposed to be derogatory. It's just an abbreviation, as I stated above. X, XP, and XT are common abbreviations from the Greek language. It is only recently do people think the Xmas means "Christ out of Christmas." In fact, XP, as in Chi Rho, is an important part of Christian art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

I'm aware of the abbreviating function of the chi (I teach early Christian history and Constantine's pre-conversion vision, among other things), and I have little problem with people who use it solely as shorthand. Nor do I have a problem with people who use it as a means of graciously sidestepping the social issues their own discomfort with the idea of Christ-as-Messiah might produce in conversation with Christian believers.

It's tricky to judge any one person's intention in using language that might be considered disrespectful, I know (especially on the Internet). But I've known a few people who used the X disparagingly, as in, "I don't like the holiday, or Christianity in general, so I refuse to say 'Christmas.'" And hey, it's a free country, so use whatever expression you like. That said, denigratory use of the abbreviation, just like the Danish cartoons a few years back that depicted Muhammad despite the fact that the vast majority of Muslims consider that extremely impolite, strike me as rude. That's all I was saying. Not should-be-illegal, or should-provoke-threats-of-violent-retaliation, but in poor taste nonetheless, the same way equating Hanukkah or Diwali with Christmas is in poor taste.

I'm not religious, really, and have my misgivings about organized religion, but I'd like to think that they're at least founded in rudimentary knowledge of the world's faiths, and that I express those misgivings, if at all, in a civil fashion.

From:

laurens10.livejournal.com

When people wish me Happy Holidays, I think of a couple of things, though in some ways they are loopholes to let the people off the hook and allow me to smile and graciously accept. One, New Years is coming up. That's a holiday that we can all agree on, just like Thanksgiving (more or less, there are exceptions). Two, everyone in my school gets a week off between now and New Years, so it's a holiday in that sense as well.

In fact, I'd rather people wish me Happy Holidays over Happy Hanukkah because it's just as you said, it's a minor holiday, and it's just awkward for me when people wish me a Happy Hanukkah, because it's being placed higher than it should. People have a lazy tendency to assume Hanukkah is a Christmas alternative, but it is not.

In the end, Happy Hanukkah sounds like to me... "Happy historic occasion marking the temporary defeat of the Greco-Roman powers that really marked the beginning of a long slide culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem a couple of centuries later!"

But I'm a cynic.

From:

magid.livejournal.com

I think "Happy holidays" would work better for me if I thought of New Year's as a holiday, rather than a fairly universal excuse for parties. Not being in academia or the non-profit world, I haven't ever had the last week of December off work.

And Hanukah as a Christmas alternative (same weight, different religion) again makes it all Christian-centric, albeit with a nice pluralistic veneer, really.

Happy getting-closer-to Tu B'Shvat :-)

From:

doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com

Belated Happy Rosh Chodesh?

From:

magid.livejournal.com

There's always another Rosh Chodesh right around the corner! (Or at least, less than 30 days away.)

Given the relative intensity on the observances, how about Shabbat Shalom?

From:

doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com

Classic!

From:

magid.livejournal.com

PS. Tangential note on New Year's: in Israel, it's called Sylvester. Rosh Hashana is already taken, obviously, so apparently they defaulted to... the name of the saint's day, which is definitely celebrated as such in Germany, and perhaps other parts of Europe or the Christian world.

From:

scholargipsy.livejournal.com

Fascinating.

From:

mabfan.livejournal.com

There was a time in my life when I was irked by being wished merry Christmas, or happy Chanukah at the wrong time. Nowadays I try to be a little bit more philosophical about it.

From:

magid.livejournal.com

Some years, it bothers me less. Some years it bothers me more. I'm not sure what makes the seasons easier/harder, else I'd cultivate the mellow.

For the record, except for wishing one Salvation Army bell ringer a Happy Hanuka when he wished me a Merry Christmas (I think I gave in on that one because I find the endless bell-ringing vastly annoying, worse than the music in stores this time of year), I haven't said anything untoward to anyone. It's more about exploring the power of words (about which I'm sure you agree :-).

Shabbat shalom, btw.

From:

cellio

Yeah, this can be challenging sometimes. They're trying to be nice and I don't want to start a long discussion with the cashier or whatever, but it's not my holiday. Sometimes I answer with "happy new year", which most people treat as at least a minor holiday. I don't bring out Chanukah because the level to which it's elevated in this country is already ridiculous and I don't want to even pretend to sanction that. It's not "Jewish Christmas", which you and I know but lots of others still don't.

When it's incoming I try to treat either "merry christmas" or "happy holidays" as that sort of generic-polite utterance like "how are you" or "have a nice day". Absent context to the contrary, I assume that the speaker is not so much expressing faith in Jesus as just trying to follow cultural norms. So I look for some non-committal polite response to get past that conversational handshake and don't ascribe deeper meaning to it. (Not that I say "merry christmas" and give the wrong impression; that's what the new-year's reference is for, to complete the conversational exchange and move on.)

From:

magid.livejournal.com

This approach makes a lot of sense; in most situations, you're right that it's a seasonal conversational automatic greeting, rather than a deeper expression of faith. Some years, I have a lot of equanimity about finding something neutral to reply back, while other years I'm just crankier.

Sometimes it makes me think about all those language discussions in the 70s and 80s, when activists were pushing for "chairpeople" and other gender neutral terms (some of which are far more successful than others, I admit). In some ways it felt ridiculous (especially for the more absurd-feeling ones), but in a lot of ways, they were right: language does shape how one approaches things (yes, Sapir-Warf). So I waffle. Yes, it's not a huge and horrible thing, but if it wears me down, I have to do something else that keeps me from that.