I don't understand

[magid]

Why is it we can make all sorts of cool geeky things, from robots driving on Mars to nanotechnology, and yet there's still no way to repair a street so it's flat again without repaving the whole thing?

[grumble] bumpy patchwork roads [/grumble]

Comments

[volta]

That problem seems to be a Massachusetts thing. It is definitely possible to patch a damaged roadway without the sorts of problems I regularly see around here.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Other places that have winter damage, you mean?

I was driving in GA at one point and was amazed at how smooth all the roads were, not just the new ones, and my dad pointed out that they don't get the frost heaves and potholes from winter weather.

[cellio]

I think patching and paving are different technologies (well, different ingredients). I'm not sure about that, but I've noticed that patches seem to be one-pass operations, while with repaving they scrape, level, and then repave. That probably makes a big difference.

[volta]

Northern NH, Maine, and Canada all have more severe winters than Boston does, and do not have nearly the problems with frost heaves and potholes that Boston does. The roads here were incredibly poorly constructed in the first place, and have never been properly maintained.

I have witnessed road crews here 'patching' holes in the roads, and am frankly disgusted with how shoddy a job they do. The worst case I have seen was on the Lynnway, where all they did was fill the hole with sand. Surprise, surprise, the sand all washed away in the first rain. Even when they do a more thorough job, they still do not bother to cut the hole square, repair the drainage, and level the fill when they are done.

The average 'good' repair around here seems to be three guys on a truck shoveling hot tar and rocks into the holes, and packing the patch down with the back of the shovel. Of course, the first car to drive over this packs it down further, leaving the patch not level with the roadway. They rarely divert traffic away to let the patch set, so you usually have cars driving over the patch while it is still hot, and some of the tar gets pulled out of the hole on the tires, to be deposited a little way down the road.

[volta]

Sorry if I am being a little bit ranty here. I just know from personal experience how little extra work it is to do the job properly, so it frustrates me to see my tax dollars wasted doing a less than half-assed job that is just going to need to be repaired again in a week or two.

[magid.livejournal.com]

No problem with rantiness; I didn't realize how little the difference was in work to do a good job.

There are some roads that have no original surface left (well, no discernible original surface); at least cobblestones are pretty...

Side note: The places you mention do have harsher winters, but I wonder if that means that they freeze and stay frozen, rather than the freeze-melt-freeze-melt cycles that do the damage.

[magid.livejournal.com]

I agree that they're likely different technologies, but I'd think it would be part of the design of how raods are made, that they can be patched reasonably easily and well. Even if we didn't have massive winter damage many years, there's always the utilities and other construction going on that affects road surface.

(See Volta's comments above about the quality of repaving around Boston...)

[spwebdesign.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it seems to be a strictly Massachusetts thing. Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota...no other cold weather state I've driven extensively in seems to have the same problem. A big part of the problem is that Massachusetts is enslaved by the unions, who want to make sure there are road jobs every year.

[volta]

I had actually considered the freeze-melt-freeze-melt thing, but the roads in southern NH are substantially better than the roads in northern MA, with no appreciable difference in weather.

[cnoocy]

Keep in mind that Massachusetts also has most of its roadwork budget tied up in the most expensive public works project in history. Pushes local roads way down on the stack.

[zzbottom.livejournal.com]

I believe the high concentration of ground water here in the landfill-o-Boston does have something to do with this phenomenon, too. But you are absolutely corrct that reasonable patches can be made to make roads passable. What I really love is going over a freshly, levelly paved road one week and then seeing them cutting into brand new effing pavement the next week to get at a water main. That just boggles my puny brain.

[spwebdesign.livejournal.com]

If the state:

(1) used anything but the cheapest, least reliable materials

and

(2) didn't so horribly mismanage the big dig

it wouldn't be such an issue.

And local roads are hardly the only problem. I know the instant I enter a new state from Massachusetts without having to read the "Welcome to ..." signs.

[zzbottom.livejournal.com]

I heard a few years back of a gizmo that was supposed to crawl down the road at something like 1/4 mile per hour gobbling up the top layer of ashphalt, process it with heat and the necessary liquid bits, and spit out fresh pavement from its tail. It was supposed to revolutionize the road paving industry. Haven't heard of it in several years, but I would imagine such a beast could really be a boon for a municipality to own.

[queue.livejournal.com]

Even though it would likely save them money in the long run, a municipality would likely have to spend quite a few years' budgets for road repairs on this machine. And I think mayors and councils and such are reluctant to spend lots of money when they're in office in order for the municipality to save money when they're not in office.

[ichur72.livejournal.com]

Hmmm -- you're making me feel smug. I don't miss driving in MA.

[magid.livejournal.com]

What I really love is going over a freshly, levelly paved road one week and then seeing them cutting into brand new effing pavement the next week to get at a water main.

Yeah, that's just stupid. When I first moved to my place, they were redoing the street, and the city said that they'd communicated with all the utilities, etc, who might want to dig up the street, and it wouldn't happen for 5 years after completion. Which was almost true. But most of the time, it seems that they find problems right under the newest pavement around.

Boggle? Did someone say Boggle?

[magid.livejournal.com]

That sounds so cool! But what Queue said; it's so unlikely to happen.

I'm in the middle of the Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars trilogy (Kim Stanley Robinson), and there was mention of a machine that travels along a cable, salvaging it, not only spitting tracks out its posterior, but sending train cars back with salvaged stuff. I hadn't thought there was anything like this already designed/produced.

[magid.livejournal.com]

As long as it's smug about the roads, not the delightful company that can be had in MA :-)

[ichur72.livejournal.com]

But of course! ;)