Happy holidays!

[magid]

The holidays are almost upon us. Thanksgiving, Diwali, Kwanzaa, Hanuka, Boxing Day, Christmas, and Bathtub Party Day. Yup, December 5 is Bathtub Party Day. I'm feeling inadequate, since my tub is extremely deficient when viewed as a party space. I wonder if hot tubs are frequently used instead.

Hilchot Yom Bathtub
1.1 Baths shall not start to be drawn before twilight to be in honor of the holiday.
1.2 Minimum dimensions of the tub are the standard size of that time and place; he who has a larger tub is blessed, for he shall party more.
1.3 The minimum amount of water is 40 hin [about 160 liters]. One who is wise will draw more, for splashing can occur. Rav says, any bubble bath is not included in this amount. Shmuel says, bubble bath is such a small part of the whole, it can be included. Rabi Chaninah bar Papa says, a shower does not fulfill the obligation, unless 40 hin are in the tub at one time.
1.4 A whirlpool or hot tub is necessary to fulfill the command to party in the best fashion.
1.5 One may not party alone.
1.6 A meal is not required, lest the food get wet. Nevertheless, it is praiseworthy to have snack foods for guests.
1.7 The essence of the holiday is in the evening. However, if one parties during the day, the obligation is fulfilled.

Comments

[queue.livejournal.com]

Oooh, a bathtub party! That would be neato.

(Hmm, I need a bath userpic.)

[cellio]

1.8 Yossi says men and women must gather separately; two tubs in different rooms is preferable, but a single tub used first by one group and then by the other will suffice, and it is not necessary to empty and refill. Hillel says men and women can share a tub so long as a mechitzah is used. Shmuel cautions about tz'niut even in the presence of a mechitzah but does not outright forbid.

1.9 A slow drain on a shower is not sufficient; the 40 hin must be intentional, not byproduct. Hillel says if the volume is sufficient then it is acceptable b'diaved even from a slow drain, but the Sages rule otherwise.

1.10 Chlorine does not invalidate if it is the custom of public baths in this place.

[volta]

Ooh, good idea, I was looking for a party excuse. :)

[magid.livejournal.com]

AAAAAhhhhhh! That's a Friday! I don't want to miss another party of yours!

If you have it, might you be persuaded to hold it the day after the holiday? *flutters eyelashes*

[volta]

I could probably do that.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Why am I not surprised that you'd like a bath party (not a Baath party, though, I assume)? :-)

There are so many options for a bath userpic; I'll be curious to see what you choose to do.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Commentary on 1.8
"it is not necessary to empty and refill"
This was the custom in the time of our sages. However, today we are isthenis ("delicate" or "picky"), and the custom is to empty and refill the tub.

Commentary on 1.10
"Chlorine does not invalidate if it is the custom of public baths in this place."
However, in private baths, chlorine does invalidate.

[missdimple.livejournal.com]

We could also host and I'd even be willing to kosher (probably spelled wrong) my oven, so we could have it on the right night!

[magid.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a hot tub party...?

I appreciate you being willing to kasher your oven! It's reasonably easy if it's self-cleaning, and a bit of a pain in the neck if not...

[bitty.livejournal.com]

i could soooooooo use a hot tub soak right now. that last assignment really annoyed my back.
also, hot water is comforting.

Oh, and

[magid.livejournal.com]

1.11 One should be clean before celebrating the festival. Shammai says that one must take a cleansing bath beforehand, a taste of the bath to come. Hillel says that one must take a shower beforehand, to emphasize the contrast. It is quoted that "these and these are the words of the living G-d."

[magid.livejournal.com]

Any chance you could stop by a gym and buy a day pass, or something?

[bitty.livejournal.com]

i have a bathtub at home. i dislike public hottubs.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Bathtubs are good, but the ones I've had at home (different homes...) have never been large enough to submerge comfortably in.

Re: Oh, and

[cellio]

*laugh* That one is absolutely brilliant. :-)

[cellio]

If you have it, might you be persuaded to hold it the day after the holiday? *flutters eyelashes*

Here, let me help.

1.12 Rabbi Abaya teaches that if the chag falls out on Shabbat, it must be delayed a day, much as we delay a fast. Rabbi Yochanan teaches that in addition, we must delay because of melachah [1].

[1] Yochanan takes it as given that you understand this means wringing the towel, but Artscroll clarifies and adds that there might also be issues with keeping the water suitably heated.

[cellio]

Commentary on the commentary on 1.8:
"This was the custom of our sages"
Our sages were especially clean due to their proximity to the source of torah; we of later generations lack that benefit and therefore must be presumed insufficiently clean. Therefore we must empty and refill even if we do not consider ourselves "picky".

Commentary on the commentary on 1.10:
"However, in private baths, chlorine does invalidate."
But it was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Akiva added scented oils. -?- Yes, but the scented oil is pleasing and not necessarily functional, while chlorine is functional but definitely not pleasing, and thus a detraction from the oneg of the day.

[magid.livejournal.com]

[1] Yochanan takes it as given that you understand this means wringing the towel, but Artscroll clarifies and adds that there might also be issues with keeping the water suitably heated.

Supercommentary:
It is unclear why Yochanan is only concerned with the towel, and not hair; most assume that while some are bald, all will be wet after a bath.

AAAH! Artscroll made it into my comments!

Re: Oh, and

[magid.livejournal.com]

Thanks. And here I'd been thinking the same thing about yours!

[magid.livejournal.com]

Commentary on the commentary on the commentary on 1.10:
"However, in private baths, chlorine does invalidate."
But it was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Akiva added scented oils. -?- Yes, but the scented oil is pleasing and not necessarily functional, while chlorine is functional but definitely not pleasing, and thus a detraction from the oneg of the day.

The Mishnah Berurah explains that scented oils are assumed to be pleasing, whether the individual finds particular oils pleasing or not. Thus, we can assume that not only bath oils, but bubbles or other bath enhancements are acceptable. However, it is recommended that before adding any enhancements, one makes sure that one's guests all find this an enhancement. This is especially true in our day, when many have allergies.

[cellio]

Clearly the editors at Artscroll believe that all of Yochanan's generation are bald.

[magid.livejournal.com]

However, this is problematic, since editors at Artscroll would surely not believe that all of Yochanan's generation are clean-shaven, nor even with short beards. Perhaps the ancient sages had beard/bath avoidance technologies which have since been lost?

[bitty.livejournal.com]

i miss the bathtub my ex had. we could both lounge in it at the same time :)

[sethg]

Commentary on 1.8: "a tub used first by one group and then by the other" obviously means, used first by women and then by men. If you've ever gone to a men's mikvah, you'll understand why.

[magid.livejournal.com]

*grin*

I admit to thinking that being my first thought when I read read 1.8, too.

[jonbaker.livejournal.com]

A cross-reference to an earlier source:

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/getsefer.asp?booknum=840

and

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/getsefer.asp?booknum=841

or How to Build a Mikva in the Home.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Wow! I hadn't realized there are whole books on mikva PDF'd and available online.

[aliza250.livejournal.com]

Commentary on 1.8: It is not just a tub, any body of water used for bathing may not be used by women after men, for if a man were to ejaculate in the water, a woman might later be impregnated by the residual sperm.

This follows obviously from the Halacha (sorry, no citation) that a woman may not bathe in a river, stream, or creek downstream from where men are bathing, as she might be impregnated. While you may think this to be a truly minor Halacha, over the years a great number of innocent Jewish virgins have (we assume inadvertently) broken this rule, and gotten pregnant through no conscious fault of their own.

:-)

[magid.livejournal.com]

*grin*

I knew there was a good explanation!