Random thoughts on cloning

[magid]

Yesterday on NPR there was a discussion about the ethics of human cloning. One of the guests said how there could be difficulties in even the most innocuous sorts of cloning situations, such as an infertile couple cloning one of the parents to have a kid. The commentator went on to talk about family dynamics issues with a kid being almost exactly like one parent (improper desires, etc).


But would the kid really be that identical? Identical twins are very similar, but can have differences, and they become greater over time. So a parent and a kid would not necessarily scream out "exactly the same genetic material" as opposed to "oh, she looks like her mother/father." Plus there's the whole "nurture" part of the equation, which would be different than the parent's, from the conditions of the womb and onward after being born.

If there's no way to distinguish clones from non-clones visually, would other identification-based systems arise, or would it be a non-issue for (most) people?

Is some of the intuitive bias against cloning that many people have an issue with hubris, that certain (rich) people would have a chance to "do it over" in some form or another? Is having a clone of you born more a path to immortality than having a normally-conceived kid with half your genes born?

The cloning talked about in the news is genetic cloning, but the kind I think about automatically is more the still-in-realm-of-total-SF kind of Xeroxing a person so there are 2 copies where there were one, both fully grown (if the original was).

If a couple that cloned the mother to have a kid got a divorce, could the father claim he doesn't owe child support b/c the kid isn't biologically "his"? What if the split happens while the mother is still pregnant? If a couple divorces where the kid is a clone of the dad, would the dad have preference in custody arrangements?
(Note: mom & dad are used as default settings for couples/adults forming a family. I assume similar issues could arise in families with non-traditional composition, but I think that would just muddy the waters for these thoughts...)

Comments

not identical

[cthulhia]

have you ever seen _Creator_? it addresses cloning in terms of improper desires.
I know, you haven't seen it, of course. we should rent it sometime.

Also, a lot of non-biological parents still fight to have custody and support of a child they've invested nurturing time with. Biology is not often the issue.

I think we are a long way off from duplicating a fully grown human being and entirely duplicating everything already processed in their brains. But... I suspect that if we ever master teleport/transporter skills, that kind of cloning will accompany it. Not in our lifetime (without divine/alien intervention).

Re: not identical

[magid.livejournal.com]

Also, a lot of non-biological parents still fight to have custody and support of a child they've invested nurturing time with. Biology is not often the issue.

I agree. I was thinking of the people who would try to duck what others might see as their responsibilities, rather than the (majority of) parents who would fit into your description.

I haven't heard of _Creator_; a movie would be fun- choose a time. (I hear you're booked until September.... :-)

I think your last paragraph was what I was trying to get at, in far too many words... Thanks.

Re: not identical

[prog.livejournal.com]

I actually don't like the Star Trek model of "transporter" tech that you're referring to, where MT happens by the original being destroyed and a brand new copy winking into existence at the destination point. This basically means that you die, really and truly, every time you "beam" somewhere, and a new person who is just like you takes over your life henceforth. There'd be no continuity of consciousness... just memories in the new copy of the previous self.

I like to think that "real" MT will be far weirder, when it does arrive, involving things like tesseracts, so that I can visit you on Alpha Centauri by folding up the space between our houses and then personally hopping across the distance, rather than blasting myself to atoms and wishing my pattern-buffer progeny the best of luck.

See also "Kiln People" by David Brin for more about human Xeroxing and continuity of consciousness.

tesseract in space

[magid.livejournal.com]

That sounds like what happens in that Madeleine L'Engle book, "A Wind in the Door," I think. And tessering is sort of understood to happen with the rest of that series.
The description Mrs. Whatsit (or Mrs. Who, I don't remember right now) gives is pretty cool, and actually understandable.

I hadn't realized that the Star Trek version has originals (or more original) being destroyed in favor of a copy in a more desired location... that does sound creepy (and we all know how bugs can creep in in the copying...)