Creating Halakhic Partnerships
Mar. 3rd, 2008 02:28 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
magidLast night I went to a program jointly sponsored by HBI (the Hadassah-Brandeis Institute*) and JOFA (the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance) about what is called (academically, at least) partnership minyanim, which are minyanim that encourage women's participation, like Minyan Tehillah.
The first panel included three women, all involved in the creation of partnership minyanim: Casara Nemes, Alanna Cooper, and Tova Hartman.
Casara Nemes is a senior at Brandeis, and one of the coordinators of Shira Hadasha at Brandeis, an occasional Friday night minyan. She spoke about how it was divisive when it started, with people feeling it might tear the community apart (which saddened me, actually, since when I attended, it was much more flexible, live-and-let-live about religious decisions, and I know the community shifted very much to the right and towards less tolerance in the years right after I graduated). The times that it does happen, it is harder to get ten men than ten women, and there is still uneasiness about the idea of Shabbat morning davening being done this way, so that hasn't happened yet.
Alanna Cooper is one of the founding members of Minyan Tehillah, and currently a professor at UMASS Amherst in Ethnic Studies. She described what the practices are at the minyan, the demographics of the minyan (based on a survey from last fall, one that had some questions I didn't like at all...), and the challenges facing it, including questions of rabbinic (or similar) decisors, sustainability, and social balance. The minyan does not meet every week because most people in the minyan have affiliations with other prayer communities as well.
Tova Hartman is one of the founding members of Shira Hadasha in Jerusalem, one of the first partnership minyanim, and a professort at Hebrew University in gender studies. She spoke about the need to find a place of partnership, where men and women could form a prayer community without second-class citizens. She acknowledges that many people don't want/need this, but for those who do, it feels necessary. She does not feel that this is outside Orthodoxy, though it is obviously on one end of the spectrum, and doesn't care that there are those who would sling arrows.
I was interested to see how questions were handled: a number of people asked in a row, the panelists making notes, then they gave bunched replies. I think it may have been more efficient (they needed it: they were running half an hour late almost from the start).
The second panel was about halakhic views on partnership minyanim. The panelists included Wendy Amsellem, Devorah Klapper, and Tova Hartman.
Wendy Amsellem is a teacher at Drisha (among other things). She brought source sheets and went through them discussing the main halakhic issues brought up against partnership minyanim (Note: she did not address the issue of different levels of obligation except briefly as the answer to a question, because currently the parts of the service lead by women in partnership minyanim are not d'varim she'b'kedushah, so it's not as relevant.).
She discussed three main issues: kavod hatsibur, bracha l'vatala, and kol isha, with the preponderance of sources on the first issue.
And all that was done in about 20 minutes!
Then Deborah Klapper spoke about how change happens in halacha, particularly focusing on two ways that things change: lay people (generally people who are seen as paragons of the community) change customs that are adopted over generations, such as forbidding kitniyot on Pesach or the decline in daily prayer by women; and change by rabbinic authority, which is immediate. She was much more eloquent that I'll manage to summarize here: I didn't take notes. She ended by saying that the partnership minyan movement needs to have halakhic authorities behind them if they are to become mainstream, and it would also help if the communities were made of people who are quite observant of other areas of halacha, however much this is requiring a higher bar than for others. And there were two other points that have escaped me.
Tova Hartman spoke again, this time about the question of the individual versus the community, going over the gemara in Baba Metzia 59b, the oven of Akhnai. R. Eliezer brings all sorts of proofs that he is correct, including a bat kol, but the Sanhedrin does not accept it: it is no longer in the heavens. And G-d laughs and says "My children have defeated me." She went on to say that if one stopped there, it is a story about the majority winning. It goes on to say that the Sandhedrin rejected all of R. Eliezer's other rulings and cast him out. This brought him much grief, and a third of the world became unproductive (or something like that). And it continues, with R. Eliezer's grief being answered by the world, and in the end, the grief in his prayers lead to the death of the leader of the Sanhedrin who'd cast him out (the brother of his wife). Which leaves the question of how to deal with the voice of the individual versus the majority. In particular, here, there are people who feel it necessary to find another kind of prayer community, but that shouldn't mean that they must be hounded/heckled/expelled from the greater community.
The event was recorded, so there's a decent chance there will be links up at one of the sites in the next month or so; this is the merest summary, without notes, and the speakers were rather more interesting than this.)
* For the Brandeisians: it's in the Epstein building, now rather redesigned (with buildings and grounds on the lower level). My previous mental association with this building was that on one side of it there was a lechi made of many, many, many layers of thick paint, enough so that it had volume; the weirdest lechi of the original Brandeis eruv.
The first panel included three women, all involved in the creation of partnership minyanim: Casara Nemes, Alanna Cooper, and Tova Hartman.
Casara Nemes is a senior at Brandeis, and one of the coordinators of Shira Hadasha at Brandeis, an occasional Friday night minyan. She spoke about how it was divisive when it started, with people feeling it might tear the community apart (which saddened me, actually, since when I attended, it was much more flexible, live-and-let-live about religious decisions, and I know the community shifted very much to the right and towards less tolerance in the years right after I graduated). The times that it does happen, it is harder to get ten men than ten women, and there is still uneasiness about the idea of Shabbat morning davening being done this way, so that hasn't happened yet.
Alanna Cooper is one of the founding members of Minyan Tehillah, and currently a professor at UMASS Amherst in Ethnic Studies. She described what the practices are at the minyan, the demographics of the minyan (based on a survey from last fall, one that had some questions I didn't like at all...), and the challenges facing it, including questions of rabbinic (or similar) decisors, sustainability, and social balance. The minyan does not meet every week because most people in the minyan have affiliations with other prayer communities as well.
Tova Hartman is one of the founding members of Shira Hadasha in Jerusalem, one of the first partnership minyanim, and a professort at Hebrew University in gender studies. She spoke about the need to find a place of partnership, where men and women could form a prayer community without second-class citizens. She acknowledges that many people don't want/need this, but for those who do, it feels necessary. She does not feel that this is outside Orthodoxy, though it is obviously on one end of the spectrum, and doesn't care that there are those who would sling arrows.
I was interested to see how questions were handled: a number of people asked in a row, the panelists making notes, then they gave bunched replies. I think it may have been more efficient (they needed it: they were running half an hour late almost from the start).
The second panel was about halakhic views on partnership minyanim. The panelists included Wendy Amsellem, Devorah Klapper, and Tova Hartman.
Wendy Amsellem is a teacher at Drisha (among other things). She brought source sheets and went through them discussing the main halakhic issues brought up against partnership minyanim (Note: she did not address the issue of different levels of obligation except briefly as the answer to a question, because currently the parts of the service lead by women in partnership minyanim are not d'varim she'b'kedushah, so it's not as relevant.).
She discussed three main issues: kavod hatsibur, bracha l'vatala, and kol isha, with the preponderance of sources on the first issue.
- Tosefta Megillah 3:11
All count towards the quorum of seven (aliyot), even a woman, even a minor. We do not bring a woman to read for the public.
So in the Tosefta, it is definitely permissible, but there is some reason not to do it. - Talmud Bavli Megillah 23a
Our rabbis taught: All may count towards the quorum of seven, even a mirnor, even a woman. But the sages said: a woman should not read from the Torah because of the honor of the community (kavod (ha)tsibur).
So the reason brought not to have a woman do/have an aliyah is due to kavod hatsibur.
What is this? The next few sources discuss other times that kavod hatsibur is cited as a reason to avoid something. - Talmud Bavli Gitting 60a
Rabbah and R. Yosef both said: we do not read from humashim (a scroll with only one of the five books) in the synagogue because of the honor of the community. - Talmud Bavli Yoma 70a
And [the paragraph from Yom Kippur in Bemidbar the high priest] reads from memory. Why? Let him roll the scroll and read it from the text! Said R. Huna b. R. Yehoshua said R. Sheshet: we do not roll the Torah scroll in public because of the honor of the community. - Talmud Bavli Sotah 39b
And said R. Tanhum said R. Yehoshua b. Levi: the prayer leader may not uncover the ark in front of the community because of the honor of the community.
This is the case where the sefer Torah is kept in someone's home and brought to synagogue specifically for the reading. When it is there, it is adorned with cloths. It can be taken home during musaf, but the cloths shouldn't be folded up until later. - Rambam Hilchot Tefillah 8:11
Do not appoint a shaliach tsibur unless it is someone great in the community in his wisdom and deeds. And if he is old, this is even better. And a man who has a good voice and is accustomed to reading. And one who has not a full beard, even though he is a great wise man, he should not be a shaliach tsibur because of the honor of the community.
So there are a variety of issues about which the honor of the community can be invoked. What if the community wishes to forgo its honor in this way? - Bayit Chadash Orach Chayim 53 (Bach)
[Paraphrase] The community cannot waive its honor, because it is about sending a fitting shaliach tsibur before G-d, not about the members of the community. Also, once the sages have established a law out of this concern, the community has no right of waiver. For every community would do this!
And obviously the Bach finds this problematic. It also leaves us with a difficulty. - Responsum of R. Meir of Rothenburg 4:108
[Paraphrase] In the town where all the men are kohanim, a kohen should read twice [kohen and levi aliyot] and then women should read the rest. And R. Simchah explained that this refers no only to the quorum of 7 [Shabbat] but also to the quorum of 3 [weekday]. And even though the Talmud says a woman should not read because of the honor of the community, in a case where there is no alternative, let the honor of the community yield to the concern that we will defame the kohanim, so that people will not say that they are the children of divorcees. [Kohanim are not allowed to marry divorcees; other Jews may do so.]
So in this presumably theoretical case, there is something that takes precedence over the honor of the community. An individual's honor should not be put into doubt for that of the community. - R. Mendel Shapiro, Qeriat ha-Torah by Women, pp. 26, 36, 51-52
[Paraphrase] The Bach said that one should not denigrate Torah reading by having women do it, and one should choose the imposing figure over the wise man. This line of thought is out of tune with modern perceptions. Jewish women are represented in the professions, holding positions where they act as representatives and advocates for others. Does it make sense to accept as halakhah an opinion that is based on anachronistic cultural presumptions? It is ironic that many of those would rely on the Bach to exclude women from reading Torah reject his position with respect to young, beardless baalei tefillah, and permit, if not encourage, the young to participate in leading the service. There appears to be sound halakhic basis for the argument that in synagogues where there is a consensus that a woman's torah reading does not violate community standards of dignity, women may be permitted to read the Torah. The only serious objection to reading by women is the one raise in the baraita, about kavod hatsibur, and this should be regarded as a relative, waivable objection that is not universally applicable. - R. Steven Wald, An Article on the Status of Women in Communal Prayer
In certain communities, some claim that it is precisely the withholding of honored roles from women that disrespects the community's honor.
Even if the last two (modern) sources are outliers, there is at least some basis to consider that women may read from the Torah.
Then a source on the question of making a bracha if getting an aliyah. - Machzor Vitri section 359
[Paraphrase] [discussion of whether it is permissible for women to say brachot for mitzvot they are not required but allowed to do] In the Talmud it says that even a woman may read, and since if a woman chooses to do a mitzvah that she is not required to do, she is permitted to say the brachah. - Book of Teachings of R. Ovadiah Yosef, p. 103
And the reason [a woman] may receive an aliyah even though she is not obligated [to study Torah] and we hold that "one who is not himself under obligation to perfrom a religious duty cannot perform it on behalf of a congregation", for how can she perform the obligation [of reading Torah] on behalf of the congregation? The answer is as follows: the purpose of Torah reading is that [the congregation] should know, understand, and hear the Torah. It makes no difference who reads, for even a woman or a minor may read and fulfill the congregation's obligation, because in the final analysis all hear the Torah and learn. Therefore, in such a case we do not require that [the mitzvah be performed] by a person who is himself obligated. This is what the Meiri and the Rose have written: that reading Torah is not a personal obligation, but a communal obligation, and only for [mitzvot that are] personal obligations do we require that the one who performs on behalf of others be himself obligated.
About impropriety of women reading: - Respona Yechavaeh Da'at 4:15
A great proof for this can be taken from what they said, "All go up to the quorum of 7, even a minor, even a woman, but the sages said that a woman should not read because of the honor of the community." And the meaning of the "honor of the community" is that they should not say that there is none among the men who can read from the Torah, but not because of peritzut (licentiousness).
And on kol isha, womens voices: - Responsa Piskei Uzziel Bisheilot Hazman #44 (Mishptei Uzziel 3, Choshen Mishpat 6, p. 35, by R. Uzziel ben Tzion, former Sefardic Chief Rabbi of Israel)
This explains what is said in Megillah that "All may come up to the quorum of 7, even a womna, but he Sages said a woman should not read in the Torah because of the honor of the congregation." How could they have permitted a woman to come up to read from the Torah with the musical trope? That is a case of a woman's singing voice! One must say that the basis for permitting a woman to read in public... is because in a place where G-d's presence dwells the Sages did not worry about sexual impropriety.
And all that was done in about 20 minutes!
Then Deborah Klapper spoke about how change happens in halacha, particularly focusing on two ways that things change: lay people (generally people who are seen as paragons of the community) change customs that are adopted over generations, such as forbidding kitniyot on Pesach or the decline in daily prayer by women; and change by rabbinic authority, which is immediate. She was much more eloquent that I'll manage to summarize here: I didn't take notes. She ended by saying that the partnership minyan movement needs to have halakhic authorities behind them if they are to become mainstream, and it would also help if the communities were made of people who are quite observant of other areas of halacha, however much this is requiring a higher bar than for others. And there were two other points that have escaped me.
Tova Hartman spoke again, this time about the question of the individual versus the community, going over the gemara in Baba Metzia 59b, the oven of Akhnai. R. Eliezer brings all sorts of proofs that he is correct, including a bat kol, but the Sanhedrin does not accept it: it is no longer in the heavens. And G-d laughs and says "My children have defeated me." She went on to say that if one stopped there, it is a story about the majority winning. It goes on to say that the Sandhedrin rejected all of R. Eliezer's other rulings and cast him out. This brought him much grief, and a third of the world became unproductive (or something like that). And it continues, with R. Eliezer's grief being answered by the world, and in the end, the grief in his prayers lead to the death of the leader of the Sanhedrin who'd cast him out (the brother of his wife). Which leaves the question of how to deal with the voice of the individual versus the majority. In particular, here, there are people who feel it necessary to find another kind of prayer community, but that shouldn't mean that they must be hounded/heckled/expelled from the greater community.
The event was recorded, so there's a decent chance there will be links up at one of the sites in the next month or so; this is the merest summary, without notes, and the speakers were rather more interesting than this.)
* For the Brandeisians: it's in the Epstein building, now rather redesigned (with buildings and grounds on the lower level). My previous mental association with this building was that on one side of it there was a lechi made of many, many, many layers of thick paint, enough so that it had volume; the weirdest lechi of the original Brandeis eruv.
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no subject
Date: 2008-03-03 10:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-04 12:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-04 01:50 pm (UTC)Shapiro's article is online at edah.org, hemmed around with a series of other articles by EDAH rabbis explaining why his reasoning is faulty. At the last big EDAH convention, just after Shapiro's article came out, it was the big topic of discussion. Then-rabbi Adam Mintz of Lincoln Square's comment was interesting - it's a good thing Darche Noam exists (Upper West Side partnership minyan), because then, when my congregants would come to me and ask if we can set one up, I don't have to tell them "no". None of the rabbis present, aside from Shapiro, seemed to be in favor of the idea.
R' Dr. Daniel Sperber (Minhagei Yisrael) wrote a book last year, in part justifying partnership minyanim based on the value of kavod habriyot (personal honor); haven't read it yet.
The R'Drs Frimer (Aryeh & Dov) are putting the finishing touches on an article rebutting both Shapiro and Sperber. Don't know when it will be published.
And we had JOFA's events coordinator & her husband for lunch last Shabbos.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-04 02:08 pm (UTC)Even the Wikipedia article noted that R. Shapiro's reasoning is not accepted; I was surprised to see that Wendy used a source that is so controversial, actually.
Tova Hartman mentioned the book by R. Sperber a couple of times, and one of the JOFA people said that they're publishing a translation of it soon (perhaps this spring?). (Not that you'd require a translation, just to get the information out.)
I'm not surprised that there are many rabbis not at all accepting. Frankly, I'm more surprised that there are some who are.
I hope it was an interesting lunch :-)
no subject
Date: 2008-03-04 02:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-04 02:10 pm (UTC)