Turkey day
Nov. 24th, 2011 01:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
magidToday is the day for all religious patriots of the state to fulfill the verse: "Turkey, for Lord, it is good, and so should it be for always in His mercy!" ("Hodo laShem ki tov, ki l'olam chasdo.")
When is the meal of turkey? On the fourth fifth-day of the eleventh month. At what time? Abaye says, during the day time. Rava says, from the earliest time to say mincha until the end of the last football game. In our day, those who are strict fulfill both opinions.
What turkey fulfills the obligation? A turkey cooked whole, the bones unbroken. However, if he has only turkey cut in parts, he has fulfilled the obligation. Ground turkey does not fulfill the obligation. Abba Arika says, since it is not distinguishable from other ground meats. Mar Ukva says, because he cannot point at the turkey. A chicken does not fulfill the obligation, but may be served to minors if there is insufficient turkey for all.
Rav Huna says, turkey is always eaten with cranberries. Rav Giddel says, turkey is always eaten with stuffing. Cranberries, how is this fulfilled? By fresh cranberry relish, or by cooked cranberry sauce, but not by jelly or by juice. Rav Sheshet says, chutney may be used, if the majority of the chutney is cranberries, for the whole is like the majority. Rav Chisda says, stuffing may be cooked inside or outside1 the bird, but must be appropriate for stuffing inside the bird. Rav Nachman would fulfill both opinions at once by making a sandwich of turkey, cranberries, and stuffing.
One year, Rav Kahane was traveling on Thanksgiving. In the town he was in, they had the custom of eating mashed potatoes with the meal. On isru chag, they would fry the leftovers in patties, thereby making something new for Shabbat and giving a hint of the holiday to come2.
Dessert, what fulfills the obligation? Shammai says, with pie. Hillel says, with any round sweet thing, for its nature includes pi. With pumpkin pie, with pecan pie, with apple pie, says Rav Papa. Ravina says, pumpkin pie may instead be made with other squash, or with sweet potatoes. Mar Zutra used to eat cranberry pie. Once, Rav Huna bar Natan was seen to eat slices of lemon meringue pie, peach pie, strawberry-rhubarb pie, and chocolate cream pie. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, is it permitted to eat chocolate cream pie3 after turkey?" Rav Huna replied, "The pies were ready first, so I did eat them first."
Rav Yehudah bar Meremar says, I have learned from my wife the law that no one has completely observed the holiday unless he has helped with the dishes.
Rashi
1 Outside: why would one cook the stuffing outside the bird? When there is not time enough to cook a stuffed bird.
2 Holiday to come: Hanukkah.
3 Chocolate cream pie: leftovers from a previous day's meal, since dairy would not be eaten on this day. [The Tosafot: tofu was unknown in that time; today it could be vegan.]
When is the meal of turkey? On the fourth fifth-day of the eleventh month. At what time? Abaye says, during the day time. Rava says, from the earliest time to say mincha until the end of the last football game. In our day, those who are strict fulfill both opinions.
What turkey fulfills the obligation? A turkey cooked whole, the bones unbroken. However, if he has only turkey cut in parts, he has fulfilled the obligation. Ground turkey does not fulfill the obligation. Abba Arika says, since it is not distinguishable from other ground meats. Mar Ukva says, because he cannot point at the turkey. A chicken does not fulfill the obligation, but may be served to minors if there is insufficient turkey for all.
Rav Huna says, turkey is always eaten with cranberries. Rav Giddel says, turkey is always eaten with stuffing. Cranberries, how is this fulfilled? By fresh cranberry relish, or by cooked cranberry sauce, but not by jelly or by juice. Rav Sheshet says, chutney may be used, if the majority of the chutney is cranberries, for the whole is like the majority. Rav Chisda says, stuffing may be cooked inside or outside1 the bird, but must be appropriate for stuffing inside the bird. Rav Nachman would fulfill both opinions at once by making a sandwich of turkey, cranberries, and stuffing.
One year, Rav Kahane was traveling on Thanksgiving. In the town he was in, they had the custom of eating mashed potatoes with the meal. On isru chag, they would fry the leftovers in patties, thereby making something new for Shabbat and giving a hint of the holiday to come2.
Dessert, what fulfills the obligation? Shammai says, with pie. Hillel says, with any round sweet thing, for its nature includes pi. With pumpkin pie, with pecan pie, with apple pie, says Rav Papa. Ravina says, pumpkin pie may instead be made with other squash, or with sweet potatoes. Mar Zutra used to eat cranberry pie. Once, Rav Huna bar Natan was seen to eat slices of lemon meringue pie, peach pie, strawberry-rhubarb pie, and chocolate cream pie. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, is it permitted to eat chocolate cream pie3 after turkey?" Rav Huna replied, "The pies were ready first, so I did eat them first."
Rav Yehudah bar Meremar says, I have learned from my wife the law that no one has completely observed the holiday unless he has helped with the dishes.
Rashi
1 Outside: why would one cook the stuffing outside the bird? When there is not time enough to cook a stuffed bird.
2 Holiday to come: Hanukkah.
3 Chocolate cream pie: leftovers from a previous day's meal, since dairy would not be eaten on this day. [The Tosafot: tofu was unknown in that time; today it could be vegan.]